Curse

Gill Halendt · Jun 04, 2010, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

I understand the idea, but I do not want to create a lvl 1 char that can display GWAMM. That shows nothing but I have achieved it on 1 character. From your reasoning, I can achieve GWAMM without even getting past lvl 1? Or am I missing something again???

So why do you have no problem creating a lv1 character with maxed Allegiance titles, maxed Treasure Hunter, maxed Wisdom...? That character probably is yet to see a hi-end chest, not to mention a key or an unidentified gold item... He/she's yet to even get his/her first Identification kit in his inventory... Oh, and what if your character is, say, a Tyrian perma-pre who doesn't remotely know where Cantha is located, but he/she's become a Saviour for the Kurzicks/Luxons without leaving Ascalon? Without even experiencing the Searing?

Oh, if you have all the account-wide titles in your account, a freshly created character is KoaBD at Lv1. Kurzick, Luxon, TH, Wisdom, Lucky, Unlucky... Six titles, and you're yet to wield a weapon for the first time.

All this doesn't make any sense either, yet it's in the game and no one ever complained...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

I understand if I have 28 titles, and I get 2 titles I don't already have maxed on another character, I will get GWAMM. That takes all the fun out of the game.

Debatable.

For many, getting these two more titles is simply a pain and far from "fun". For many, that means farming for more money to get one more consumable title done, or grinding one more insane account-wide title as the remaining Allegiance title. Many would rather get a Legendary Survivor instead, but still, many cannot, and cannot get LDoA either.

It was fun for me, but I see the point in such a change anyway. You can still do it and get all your titles with just one character and play only one character in your whole life. But why can't people be given some choice?

Then again, if it's a matter of accomplishments for each character... well, account wide titles shouldn't count for KoaBD either, as you probably didn't get them with that specific character, nor newly created characters have given any contribution to such an achievement.

Lhim · Jun 04, 2010, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

I understand the idea, but I do not want to create a lvl 1 char that can display GWAMM. That shows nothing but I have achieved it on 1 character.

I agree, so I suggested:

Quote:

I'd sign if you have to max, say, 20 titles before having access to other titles from other characters.

That way a newly made character would still have to play the game like usual.

Gill Halendt · Jun 04, 2010, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lhim

That way a newly made character would still have to play the game like usual.

In the suggestion presented here, titles from other characters WOULD NOT be accessible or interchangeable... -_-

Each character would still have to play the game like usual anyway, you wouldn't get maxed everything just because your main is GWAMM.

Lhim · Jun 04, 2010, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Each character would still have to play the game like usual anyway, you wouldn't get maxed everything just because your main is GWAMM.

In that case I misunderstood as well.

-Vodka- · Jun 04, 2010, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

It's still a fairly stupid idea to be honest. If you want GWAMM on a character, then get GWAMM on that character. Anet is not punishing anyone for you having to grind out the titles on each character.

I am not saying I agree with this idea at all. In fact on the previous page I've /unsigned. I just felt like making everyone aware of what the OP was suggesting before they started flaming before they even fully understood the concept.

Anyway, I agree with what you say. To put it simply, the game is too far into it's life span and making a change such as this would be more hassle than it's worth..Among other things.

Face up to the fact that in order to advance the KoaBD title track, you're going to have to get the required amount of titles on a single character. Anet won't change that now.

Gabriel of Ravn · Jun 04, 2010, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Eh still sounds like lazyness if I want gwamm on my monk I'll go do it on my monk if I want gwamm on my dervish I'll go play my dervish. To say it would be the same amount of work is false getting 30 titles on 1 character then getting it on another character for free just seems to be really boring as there would be no point on working on titles with the character that got them free. Let me go make 1 gwamm then make new characters and instantly have 8 gwamms with no idea how to play some of the professions great idea (insert sarcasm). It would also be really cheap to the people who do have multiple gwamms that someone can make one and instantly have it for all toons they make with only doing the work on the one toon.

/still not signed

Tenebrae · Jun 04, 2010, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

You keep using those words...

Its impressive , how can you fail on a simple equivalence ?
How many times do i have to write it down so you can understand WHY it is FREE for another CHARACTER who didnt achieve that title ?

"GWAMM = 30 Max titles on a CHARACTER
PLAYER =\= CHARACTER"

Seriously , i dont know what are you smoking but WHAT part of THAT (above) dont you understand ?. Give a real reason outside "i want my titles faster" ( in this case , GWAMM title ).

And there goes the "Halendt case" . Dude , the same question for you. Its plain simple :
-No real reason to make GWAMM account wide
-No real reason to make exclusive titles to count towards GWAMM title track of a CHARACTER that didnt achieve any of those.
Im still amazed some ppl bring the HoM in FAVOR of this suggestion when it totally beats it. HoM is where it should be taken into account and it does and thats it , over and out.

Gill Halendt · Jun 04, 2010, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

-No real reason to make GWAMM account wide

GWAMM is a terribly designed title.

I don't believe a change so late in the game is possible, nor that it makes any sense now. Though I wish the "title of maxed titles" was implemented as suggested by OP since the start:

- It would have freed players from the necessity of playing ONE single character while title-hunting for optimization. Variety is good.
- It would have offered alternatives for people not having the chance to achieve certain titles on their main character (namely, LDoA and LS). Choice is good.
- It would have shut the complaints from veterans for the late implementation of titles such as LS and LDoA, titles they could basically never achieve.

GWAMM in it's current guise is a title PER CHARACTER. So? So were TH and Wisdom.

I see the reason behind this suggestion. Not that I care if it's ever implemented, mind you. I just see its point.

Schnellburg · Jun 04, 2010, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

So why do you have no problem creating a lv1 character with maxed Allegiance titles, maxed Treasure Hunter, maxed Wisdom...? That character probably is yet to see a hi-end chest, not to mention a key or an unidentified gold item... He/she's yet to even get his/her first Identification kit in his inventory... Oh, and what if your character is, say, a Tyrian perma-pre who doesn't remotely know where Cantha is located, but he/she's become a Saviour for the Kurzicks/Luxons without leaving Ascalon? Without even experiencing the Searing?

Oh, if you have all the account-wide titles in your account, a freshly created character is KoaBD at Lv1. Kurzick, Luxon, TH, Wisdom, Lucky, Unlucky... Six titles, and you're yet to wield a weapon for the first time.

All this doesn't make any sense either, yet it's in the game and no one ever complained...

Lol those titles are already account wide, your talking about ADDING more account wide titles that are only character wide atm. Your points are invalid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

For many, getting these two more titles is simply a pain and far from "fun". For many, that means farming for more money to get one more consumable title done, or grinding one more insane account-wide title as the remaining Allegiance title. Many would rather get a Legendary Survivor instead, but still, many cannot, and cannot get LDoA either.

It was fun for me, but I see the point in such a change anyway. You can still do it and get all your titles with just one character and play only one character in your whole life. But why can't people be given some choice?

Then again, if it's a matter of accomplishments for each character... well, account wide titles shouldn't count for KoaBD either, as you probably didn't get them with that specific character, nor newly created characters have given any contribution to such an achievement.

Survivor is so easy to get. Go farm Kilroy's for 6 hours and you have Legendary Survivor. I bet you were also 1 of those people preposing a "Surivivor" reset a while back. Listen if you character died, then hey oh well, play safer. If your too cheap to buy kath hammers or even ooze's to get LS that way, oh well go powertrade/farm for it. Titles are exclusive, if Anet wanted everyone to achieve them, then they would of given them to us without having to do any of the work associated with them.

As for account wide titles that already exist, go ahead and take them away, I will still have my GWAMM it does not bother me at all. But the fact of the matter is what your asking for is for all titles to be account wide, and not reap the benefits of them. Your asking for FREE titles, just stop being lazy and do the work for your titles.

Gill Halendt · Jun 04, 2010, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Lol those titles are already account wide, your talking about ADDING more account wide titles that are only character wide atm. Your points are invalid.

Yet them being account wide doesn't make any sense by your own reasonment: lore-wise, and logic-wise, they shouldn't be.

Still, they are account wide and no one complains.

Also, I repeat for the millionth time: no more account-wide titles. OP isn't suggesting to turn 30 titles into account-wide titles. Learn to read, please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Survivor is so easy to get. Go farm Kilroy's for 6 hours and you have Legendary Survivor. I bet you were also 1 of those people preposing a "Surivivor" reset a while back.

No, I wasn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Listen if you character died, then hey oh well, play safer. If your too cheap to buy kath hammers or even ooze's to get LS that way, oh well go powertrade/farm for it. Titles are exclusive, if Anet wanted everyone to achieve them, then they would of given them to us without having to do any of the work associated with them.

My character hasn't died, I got my LS by "playing safer" and by just completing quests and missions. Oh, and I don't need it to get "free GWAMM" as I have it already.

Actually I don't even know why I'm bothering, really. Who cares, I got my titles and I don't need this suggestion to be implemented...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

As for account wide titles that already exist, go ahead and take them away, I will still have my GWAMM it does not bother me at all. But the fact of the matter is what your asking for is for all titles to be account wide, and not reap the benefits of them. Your asking for FREE titles, just stop being lazy and do the work for your titles.

No one is asking for all titles to become account-wide. That's some assumption you and most of the /unsigners have made. GWAMM currently counts how many titles the CHARACTER has maxed. OP is suggesting GWAMM to count titles per account. Just a counter. Titles wouldn't be transferred from one character to another, it's just GWAMM moved to account-wide counter. I won't bother explaining it again, as you don't bother reading and even trying to understand.

You can argue as much as you want about character not having earned LS or LDoA if you do that on another character. Then I ask: how many of you have actually gained Saviour of the Kurzicks/Luxons with their main character? Do you remember why Wisdom and TH were made account-wide? Because people wanted to be able to unlock chests and identify items with any character, while retaining the bonus given by each title. So, has your main character really opened 10.000+ hi-end chests? No. Has your character earned the title? No.

I give up, this suggestion isn't going to be implemented anyway, so this whole discussione is pointless, and discussing with people who skip entire paragraphs and just reply with little to no understanding of the topic is hopeless. Sorry.

Shriketalon · Jun 04, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

How many times do i have to write it down so you can understand WHY it is FREE for another CHARACTER who didnt achieve that title ?

Oh, I understand your position perfectly well. I just think it is completely illogical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

"GWAMM = 30 Max titles on a CHARACTER
PLAYER =\= CHARACTER"

You are asserting "GWAMM must be character based, because GWAMM is defined as titles on a character". This is a self-fulfilling argument based purely on definition, that "Item X must conform to standard Y, because I define Item X as a thing that is Y".

In other words, a tautology.

The OP's suggestion changes the definition of GWAMM to be "Titles earned by the player". Therefore, no matter how many times you repeat that GWAMM is a character title, that has no bearing on the issue. The discussion is over the benefits of GWAMM as an account title versus a character title, ergo repeating the current definition again and again like a broken record isn't a logical argument.

Terrible Surgeon · Jun 05, 2010, 12:18 AM // 00:18

this is a flame thread for pve kids. They wont like this idea. I support it fully.

/SIGNED

myopic · Jun 05, 2010, 02:03 AM // 02:03

as much as i'd like to agree with the op, the only thing this would do is alienate the people still playing the game. at this point, 5 years in, the people still playing this game on a regular basis are the "hardcore".

if anet implemented this change, i might be motivated to login and play more, but thats still pretty unlikely.

and like other people have already said, gwamm isn't THAT hard to get. i sure don't have it, but grinding really isn't my thing.

Tenebrae · Jun 05, 2010, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Oh, I understand your position perfectly well. I just think it is completely illogical.

Oh no you dont, you are calling Mathematics illogical dude. Is not a position , its a fact .
Giving a char 1-2 titles ( to count for GWAMM title track ) that didnt achieve = bonus = 1-2 titles for FREE to that char.
No matter how much times you read it or turn around those words , thats a fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

You are asserting "GWAMM must be character based, because GWAMM is defined as titles on a character". This is a self-fulfilling argument based purely on definition, that "Item X must conform to standard Y, because I define Item X as a thing that is Y".

Its impressive how many times you can fail on something so obvious. Im not asserting nothing , im reflecting reality. Things are like they are for a reason , account wide titles are what they are for a reason. Like i said a gazillion times..... you want to change it ? give a REAL REASON besides "i want my titles faster".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

The OP's suggestion changes the definition of GWAMM to be "Titles earned by the player". Therefore, no matter how many times you repeat that GWAMM is a character title, that has no bearing on the issue. The discussion is over the benefits of GWAMM as an account title versus a character title, ergo repeating the current definition again and again like a broken record isn't a logical argument.

Bla bla bla , misunderstanding , misreading .
Read above
Now tomorrow someone can suggest "hey , lets make TH title lower to 6000 chests" or "lets change drunkard to be account wide" ( gazillion times ) but without a reason , its pointless. Now im using your own words against you.

The OP suggestion changes the definition of GWAMM to be "titles earned by te player" when theres no reason to because HoM is there for that. Therefore no matter how many times you repeat it would be cool , theres no real reason to move a finger because GWAMM has no benefits other than show off to any other char ( unlike TH , wisdom , Faction ). Repeating that the current definition should be changed for no real reason other than "i want my titles faster" like a broken record isnt a logical argument.

Suggestion is not a change to the title to make it "different" ... is to make it easier , you ppl are not fooling anyone . The change is "make LDOA and Survivor account wide towards individual chars GWAMM title track" .... no , just no.

Gill Halendt · Jun 05, 2010, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Oh no you dont, you are calling Mathematics illogical dude. Is not a position , its a fact .
Giving a char 1-2 titles ( to count for GWAMM title track ) that didnt achieve = bonus = 1-2 titles for FREE to that char.

Ok, so account-wide titles shouldn't count as well unless you've achieved them playing your title-hunter only, as you havent achieved them with that specific character.

I suggest removing these from the count toward GWAMM, as it's meant to be per-character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Suggestion is not a change to the title to make it "different" ... is to make it easier , you ppl are not fooling anyone . The change is "make LDOA and Survivor account wide towards individual chars GWAMM title track" .... no , just no.

So?

How's that "easier"? 30 titles is still a requirement. LS is easy to obtain, sure. So is Saviour with DTSC/MQSC... Or clicking 10k times on colourful icons in your inventory, for that matter...

So, YOU people are not fooling anyone: it's not a matter of how sensible and logical this suggestion might sound, you're just afraid such a change could devalue your little personal achievement.

Speaking personally, I don't see the need for such a change, expecially this late in the game, but it would have made a lot more sense than the current, character-based, title track, as it would have also rewarded efforts of more variegated playstyles.

milan · Jun 05, 2010, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Disclaimed: I don't have GWAMM yet on any character.

Not only would this cheapen the accomplishments of those players who have the almost indescribable patience to get multiple GWAMM's it would also instantly make the character that I've spent most of my time on reach the title requirements.

Kinda takes away the challenge for the top PvE (don't know how it's considered in PvP circles) accomplishment in the game.

Shriketalon · Jun 05, 2010, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Suggestion is not a change to the title to make it "different" ... is to make it easier , you ppl are not fooling anyone . The change is "make LDOA and Survivor account wide towards individual chars GWAMM title track" .... no , just no.

Hypothetical character X can gain every title in the game. This is the norm.

Hypothetical character Y cannot gain survivor or LDoA because they were created before Factions and titles were even programmed. They are below par.

Hypothetical player A can gain every title in the game. He plays one character. He gets GWAMM after thirty titles of work.

Hypothetical player B can gain every title in the game. He plays multiple characters. He cannot get GWAMM with any of the effort he spends on other characters.

The update in question would make all characters gain the GWAMM title with the exact same amount of effort. It is not "easier", it is "on par with everyone else". You seem to be hung up on the notion that people are trying to get something for nothing. It's blinding you to the fact that this suggestion doesn't make anything easier; the player who spends equal time would get equal reward. Every title earned would be given equal weight.

Unless, of course, by "free", you mean from a purely character based perspective. In that case, why are PvP titles free to a new character? They give no mechanical bonus, they were not earned by the character in question, but they are given without him earning anything! The horror! They can also access the Xunlai accounts of people who are totally not them! How dare they?

There's a major difference between "I want Title X to be easier" and "I want my work to count towards the title track, regardless of which character I'm playing". The former involves less effort, the latter involves doing the exact same amount of work. This suggestion is the latter.

R_Frost · Jun 05, 2010, 04:34 PM // 16:34

interesting discussion. should there be a title to display for someone who has 30+ titles spread over their account, sure why not. with the titles in your HoM being account wide now making it easier to fill the HoM for those not wanting to focus their time on one character what would it hurt to come up with a title showing that.

as for the arguement of a level 1 being able to display the title. simple fix if the programming effort was put into it. must reach lvl 20 first, be a protector of tyria,cantha,elona and seeing you must reach EoTN to access your HoM, you must also finish EoTN in NM too.

only issue this late into GW's life is getting someone to put in the programming time to make this happen before GW2 is released

as a player who likes to play different professions i might put more effort into filling my HoM if the rewards for doing so were finally relased. i get bored playing one character. i have 4 that are mainly used in HM right now. all 10 are protectors of tyria,cantha,elona. only 5 have been into EoTN.

theres still a few titles i think that need to be rebalanced or made account wide but i know it will never happen. anyways back on topic, im not in favor of the GWAMM being displayed on all characters for filling your HoM to the level of a single character that would be a GWAMM but i would be in favor of a different title that could be displayed showing your HoM has 30+ titles spread across many different characters if you dont have a GWAMM.

Tenebrae · Jun 05, 2010, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Broken record, bzzzt
No valid arguments , just "i want LDOA and survivor to count towards GWAMM per character for no valid reason at all"

Fixed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Unless, of course, by "free", you mean from a purely character based perspective. In that case, why are PvP titles free to a new character? They give no mechanical bonus, they were not earned by the character in question, but they are given without him earning anything! The horror! They can also access the Xunlai accounts of people who are totally not them! How dare they?

And now you clearly showed that you dont even know how to read , you are anking questions me and some ppl already answered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

There's a major difference between "I want Title X to be easier" and "I want my work to count towards the title track, regardless of which character I'm playing". The former involves less effort, the latter involves doing the exact same amount of work. This suggestion is the latter.

Fail is fail. Some titles are per character and GWAMM is one of them , oh you cant have LDOA and Survivor to count towards GWAMM of EACH character no matter if they achieved it or not ? cry me a river. Soz dude , deal with it and get over it like all the rest of GW players.
It counts at HoM where it should , game over. Seriously im tired of re-answering same questions while you 2 misread and misunderstand on purpose. What are you going to ask now ? why wisdom is account wide ? why treasure hunter is account wide ? dear god , deja vu 4x.
Bring something new , not reasons "for the sake of it" or "for the sake of a change" , something like for example :
"Hey GWAMM title gives IAS and IMS so it should be account wide or at least its effects !" .

Midnight Sands · Jun 05, 2010, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Cba to read all the responses so dont know if someone else has suggested it but i think there should be a "second" GWAMM title track thats account based with different title names/tiers for the account wide HoH statue to work off. Wont retract from anyone who earned 2+ GWAMM (actually benefit them since they can show that they have multiple) and encourages people to title grind multiple chars which is what Anet said they wanted.

Though /not signed to the original idea for the reasons proberly already stated somewhere amongst the flames in this thread.